Nancy Lyons Podcast Transcript
Nancy Lyons joins host Brian Thomas on The Digital Executive Podcast.
Welcome to Coruzant Technologies, Home of The Digital Executive podcast.
Brian Thomas: Welcome to The Digital Executive. Today’s guest is Nancy Lyons. Nancy Lyons, CEO and co-founder of Clockwork, is an outspoken advocate for making work better, more inclusive, flexible, and adaptable. No one does great work if they’re worried or if they can’t bring their whole self to work.
And she learned this the hard way by having terrible jobs and not fitting in, things many of us can relate to. But how do we create workspaces like that? It’s on us leaders, employees, teams, people. We all have to take responsibility for creating cultures and spaces that actually work for humans with all their complexities, nuances, and intricacies. And in doing so, we will make better products, better experiences, and have better work lives.
Well, good afternoon, Nancy. Welcome to the show!
Nancy Lyons: Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Brian Thomas: Absolutely. Nancy. I really appreciate this. I’ve been looking forward to this podcast all week, and we’re going to just jump right into your first question.
Talk about some really creative and cool stuff here. So, Nancy, you’ve spoken about learning is the importance of inclusive and adaptable work environments. Hard the hard way through experiencing terrible jobs, feeling like you didn’t fit in, can you share some of those early challenges and how they shaped your vision for a better workplace?
Nancy Lyons: Sure. You know, I always think about the early parts of my career when I faced, I think a lot of challenges in a variety of work environments that I found and, and actually, you know, my coworkers and I found to be rigid and exclusive. I think I, I, through those experiences, I often felt Marginalized or unable to bring my full self to work.
And I think that was really instrumental in shaping my vision for better workplaces. I think, you know, just yesterday, I had this conversation in a women’s group talking about how we have all these. Expectations of professionalism, but what they really are, are these you know, these standards of conformity, what we expect people to show up as so that they make us more comfortable so that they aren’t pushing us outside of our comfort zones.
And I think we project those expectations on. Everyone at work and we judge people that don’t fit inside of those four corners very nicely. But early in my career, I realized the profound impact of a work culture that doesn’t value diversity and flexibility. And I think that’s what drove me to create workplaces that are inclusive and empathetic and adaptable and places where employees Feel valued and respected and empowered because when people don’t fit in, when they exist on the margins, they aren’t able to contribute from their most creative space.
And I think everyone’s unique perspective and experiences, life experiences and work experiences. All of those things come into play when we’re asking them to show up creatively to think about innovation. And those were things that I just didn’t experience early in my career. So, I moved into my professional life with a really intentional idea of what I believed would be healthier for a workforce.
Brian Thomas: Thank you. I appreciate that. And you’re right. Everybody is somewhere on the spectrum of where they live right in their own mind and how they interact with the rest of the world. And there’s not 1 mold that fits all. So, we can certainly appreciate that for sure. And Nancy, can you elaborate on practical steps organizations can take to make their workplaces more inclusive and ensure employees can bring their whole selves to work?
Nancy Lyons: Sure. I mean, I think in order to make workplaces more inclusive. Organizations need to start with a genuine commitment to diversity and inclusion at every level of an organization. And I say genuine commitment, because I think a lot of people are comfortable talking the talk, but it’s the walking the walk.
And I also think that we believe that D, E, and I is a political thing, and it’s also pushing people to accept. A level of you know, what, what, what has been sort of coined woke thinking, but the truth is, I think actively seeking diverse perspectives and hiring and decision making is critical to creating healthy, diverse cultures.
I also think real training on unconscious bias, because. Yes, our biases show up relative to race and ethnicity and religious beliefs. We’ve all been trained in our given circumstances and our lived circumstances to believe things about ourselves in relation to other people. But the truth is we have unconscious biases about all sorts of things, larger people versus average size, people, people with different abilities versus people who are physically completely able.
So I think that that sort of cultural awareness is really important. I think creating flexible policies that accommodate different life circumstances, like remote work options or flexible hours, those are really important. I also think encouraging open dialogue and creating safe or brave spaces for people to express themselves without fear.
of judgment or retribution is really critical in allowing people to bring their whole selves to work. I’m doing an International Woman’s Day talk tomorrow. One of the things I’m talking about in that conversation is just the issues that women experience that are unique. To being a woman in the workplace.
And I think acknowledging the differences, the difference in obligations, the difference in expectations between even the genders is important as we start to build the workplace of the future. So, I think it’s a multi-tiered multi layered activity, and I think it requires us to recognize that. Every single one of us possesses differences.
We are all the other in one way or another, and that’s what makes us valuable to any given work culture. Right.
Brian Thomas: I appreciate that. Nancy, you’re absolutely right. Everybody’s very diverse in their own way. It doesn’t even matter if you’re, you know, all one particular ethnicity or whatnot, everybody’s different.
Right. And, and I I’m glad that you’re embracing. The fact that everybody has a different perspective when they come into work and show up to play work, whatever that is, but be their creative self. So, I appreciate what you’re doing and what you’re sharing with the world at this point and Nancy drawing from your first book, interactive project management, pixels, people and process.
How does a human centered approach influence the outcome of digital products? And why is it crucial for project managers to adopt this perspective?
Nancy Lyons: Yeah, well, you know, Interactive Project Management is a book that was published in 2012. And there are still aspects of that book that are relevant today.
And in that book, my coauthor, Megan McInerney and I emphasize the importance of a human centered approach to digital product management. And I think that, you know, Perspective, it actually mirrors what I believe makes any organization successful. But when you create a micro culture on a team and move forward with a human centered approach to product development, I think what happens is that perspective prioritizes the needs and the experiences of end users in every stage of The project and when I say end users or customers I’m not just talking about the people on the other side of the commerce experience who may be buying your product or the stakeholders that we’re building this product for.
I’m not just talking about aligning your customers with. Your business goals. I’m also talking about the folks inside of the organization. They’re important stakeholders to consider that are going to be managing that business going forward. So really centering that the variety of needs and expectations of these audiences and prioritizing them I think is an advantage.
And certainly, contributes to the success of a product. I think by understanding. That end users’ challenges and their aspirations. What are they here to do? I think that’s when project managers can create more effective or intuitive or satisfying digital products. And I think it’s really critical for project managers to adopt that perspective to ensure that digital solutions that the products they’re developing actually.
Meet the needs and expectations of the audience, which I think at the end of the day leads to higher user satisfaction, better project outcomes, but, but it also helps to deliver on those business goals that should be central to our thinking from the moment we engage. So, I really think it’s about centering people in all aspects of technology development.
Brian Thomas: Thank you. Appreciate that. We talked a lot about that human centered approach, human centric on this podcast quite a bit. And at the end of the day, it’s the customer experience. People are really the, the thing that makes the world go around and you’ve got to get that right. Whether it’s during a project or the rollout of a product.
At the end of the day, it’s got to, we got to get it right the 1st time and your approach is spot on. So, I appreciate that. And Nancy, last question of the day. How do you measure success in creating a workplace that truly works for humans? Are there particular metrics or indicators? That businesses should focus on to ensure they’re making progress in the right direction.
Nancy Lyons: Sure, I mean, I don’t think there’s any magic in measuring success. I think we all have the tools that we that are go to tools. I think measuring success in creating human centric. Workplaces involves both qualitative and quantitative metrics. I think you know; key indicators include employee engagement scores and retention rates and feedback from regular surveys.
Although I do think that, you know, post COVID, a lot of folks are feeling survey fatigue. I think every organ, it’s incumbent upon every, Leadership team and every organization to recognize what their people will respond to how they will show up and provide honest feedback so they can continue to sort of tweak how they think, how they work and how they invite people to show up to encourage healthier responses, healthier workplaces, but also just encourage that.
That, that energy that really defines a healthy culture. I think, you know, we confuse culture with gimmicks and the truth is a culture, a healthy culture is something you can feel. It’s almost palpable. I also think it’s important to take a look at those diversity and inclusion metrics, like representation of various groups at various levels of organizations.
I think it’s important, you know, I said earlier, lots of organizations want to talk the talk. Okay. But I think it’s important to actually measure, are we doing our best and are we engaging in outreach that is attracting a diverse talent pool that will show up to contribute to our product or service in a way that ensures that.
The people that are building these tools, the people that are making these products reflect the audiences that these products are for. I think another really important indicator is how well the organization adapts to change and challenge because that reflects its overall resiliency and flexibility. You know, we are required to do a lot of things right now in the world of work, but the most important thing that I think all humans are being challenged with right now is the ability to change.
I think ultimately a successful workplace for people is one where the workforce feels genuinely supported. And this goes back to that energy, that palpable energy, genuinely supported, genuinely valued and connected. To their work to the purpose of the organization to their values and to each other. I think, you know, it’s incumbent upon all of us to create hiring strategies where people can actually invest in real mutually trusting relationships, because at the end of the day, that’s what’s going to make our products better.
So, I think it’s a variety of things that allow us to measure success, but I think whatever the tools you use. It really is important to have your finger on the pulse of the human side of the organization. At all times, we used to measure success solely by numbers, but the numbers tell a different story sometimes.
And when we are literally overwhelming people on a regular basis, it’s important to recognize what they need from us in order to thrive.
Brian Thomas: Absolutely. And we need to, like you said, support those, the, you know, those different diverse backgrounds, demographics cultures, whatever that is. Right. But we, we’ve got to make people feel comfortable about coming out and sharing who they are and what they, what they can do to contribute to the success of the organization.
So, I appreciate that. And Nancy, it was such a pleasure having you on today. And I look forward to speaking with you real soon.
Nancy Lyons: Hey, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it.
Brian Thomas: Bye for now.
Nancy Lyons Podcast Transcript. Listen to the audio on the guest’s podcast page.
